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 Boys, why don't you talk?

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Night Star
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sun May 17, 2009 2:48 pm

Humeran! I was wondering where you disappeared to! LOL Good to see you!
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sun May 17, 2009 3:44 pm

Then there is the exageration that gets the whole ball of lies rolling down the wrong path. The speculation that Bill was with another woman only to find out the truth that this friend of Bill's was a person that needed a helping hand.

The women demonized a good guy causing the problem for the marriage.

Of course not all men are nights in shining Armour but most assuredly women that lie and exaggerate are going to cause harm to their own relationships. They can throw away everything that they wanted and close their eyes and minds to who the prince really is and was.

Gossip is the root of evil.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Mon May 18, 2009 1:44 am

Night Star wrote:
Humeran! I was wondering where you disappeared to! LOL Good to see you!

Hey Night! Good to see you as well! Where I've been is a wonderful tail which I hope to post soon. No lost time on this one though...lol.

But do to some aspecks of it I lost my link to this wonderful place and had to get it from Richard.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Mon May 18, 2009 2:34 am

It is not my goal to find fault with either way of thinking, but to simply point out that men and woman have fundamentally different needs, wants and programing, and at times these clash.

I am one of those men who was raised in a predominantly female environment, with a father that was raised in the same type of environment. This has sometimes put me in the position of being more comfortable in conversations with women than with men.

I have had more than my share of relationships, and most were not of my instigating. Why? Because I learned to listen to the woman around me and care about what I was listening too. Most times it was as the ear of a friend, which in many cases became more. When it came time to part - it was always as friends. This was possible by always being open and straight forward about the relationship and what was wanted from the relationship.

Gossip for some reason is needed by woman, but very rarely for men. It, from our perspective, is a breeding ground for misconceptions and misunderstandings that very well may have been avoided.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Mon May 18, 2009 8:28 am

Interesting comments. There are no right or wrong answers - just different ones, or so I believe. Humeran your experiences show that being socialised by or around women led you to adopt a different approach to communication. And yet you also have an innate male trait concerning it whereby gossip isn't tolerated. What you guys call gossip, we girls call stress relief. Most of it is just speculation and we know that - look at all those celeb mags!! Nobody believes 90% of the trash written in them. But we girls need our time out from our own troubles so we look to others to give ourselves relief. And hey - who doesn't want to see these rich and powerful women who look like they have just stepped out of a beauty salon show their human frailty - it makes us feel good about ourselves because if Britney can make bad judgments then somehow we can also accept our own and not be so hard on ourselves. It ties in to the our need to affiliate or belong. We communicate to connect and form relationships. Gossip about people we know isn't always pointless or judgmental or lies. Sometimes it is a way we share information to define problems that may exist where we can be of assistance to the person in need. I think Gary, the type of gossip you are talking about happens with both sexes and is more about going off half-cocked than communicating in a healthy fashion which would reveal more information and a clearer picture. But then men with holding and remaining silent also has it's downside. Look at the recent news story here in Australia about the badly behaved footballers who kept quiet about their dalliance with a woman in New Zealand. It was the woman's gossiping or telling the story that uncovered this disgusting act: What happened here

Like I said, this thread isn't meant to be a battle of the sexes. I appreciate all your views. thumup

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Tue May 19, 2009 2:15 pm

I'll come back to this tomorrow... Social skills and all and communication or gossip we need to throw some things around to clarify what exactly we are talking about or not talking about as the thread was created... I'm burnt out tonight. Sorry...
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Wed May 20, 2009 12:03 am

When I used to hear gossip from others wether in school or in the work place or whatever, I always listened. Not that I wanted to run around repeating things, but because I was naturally curious. Still, depending on the source, I would take those comments with a grain of salt.

Women enjoy details in order to fully understand a situation. Women are more emotional than men usually, so when something may not be a big deal to a man, it might be a big deal for a woman. Like a man may say something that can be interpreted two different ways. He assumes the woman knows what he means. We are not mind readers, so we ask for clarification. We're not trying to make a big deal out of something small, we simply don't understand. LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Wed May 20, 2009 5:24 am

Good point there, Humaren. That was a very realistic example of how men and women would each discuss a situation. Men do look more for the basic details, don't we? We have a sense of respect whereby we don't impede upon a person's or couple's privacy beyond a basic point; if a couple is having problems it's good to know, but we don't need the details. For one thing, we're not that nosy by nature, and like I say I think that it is a matter of respect.

As for women, they tend to be quite nosy lol. They are more about wisdom; about picking up all the little details to gain a fuller understanding about things. So therefore, it is a two-sided coin. Women value little tidbits of information, partially as women think more about the future and thus how information might come to be of value at a later date. (I say that women think more about the future because they typically plan for it more (just ask Night, there was a case where money was lent to African families and they found that the men/fathers would spend all the money straight away on luxury-type items while the women/mothers would invest it carefully for the future.)

Men are more about the here-and-now, keeping it simple and direct. We don't like a lot of fuss, worry and panic. We like everything simple and straight-forward. We like to know where someone stands with something so we know where we stand with them; but details are not necessary.

Women on the other hand have a knack for fuss and panic--sorry, being honest from what I've seen. lol. Women are more likely to scream, cry, whine and have panic attacks than men are. They are usually more emotional about things; more openly loving and compassionate, but also more openly insecure and concerned about things. They have a need to know many minor details, to try to understand what's going on behind-the-scenes of things, etc. (For example, if a couple have a son who is in a play, the father only needs to know that his son is having a good time, what kind of play it is, what kind of part he's playing, and when opening night is--while the mother wants to know who all are involved in the play, who's the director, what's the story about, what are they like as a group, when are each and every one of the performances going to be (because she'll want to go to every one of them, parked front and centre if possible. lol.)

Of course I'm generalizing, but it's an honest generalization. I myself do enjoy the details of some things, for example (like story backgrounds, paranormal cases and beautiful locales.) I can also be quite talkative sometimes, and there are times when I do take interest in the details of some social happenstance (but this is usually because it is a learning experience on the psychology of people in some way.) And of course most everyone has their exceptions, no matter how “ordinary” they may be. I’m saying this to cover my ass of course, but I do mean every word of it. Lol.

But I think the conclusion here is that men focus on keeping the present enjoyable while women are more worried about the future, and so this creates a difference in how we go about things.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Wed May 20, 2009 8:48 am

Night Star wrote:

Women enjoy details in order to fully understand a situation. Women are more emotional than men usually, so when something may not be a big deal to a man, it might be a big deal for a woman. Like a man may say something that can be interpreted two different ways. He assumes the woman knows what he means. We are not mind readers, so we ask for clarification. We're not trying to make a big deal out of something small, we simply don't understand. LOL

thumup thumup thumup YES!!!! Now that there is one of the main problems I have had in communicating within a relationship with a guy. Thank you for putting it so well Nighty!

Blue, I am still kind of reeling from your post.... Shocked I am gonna take it with a grain of salt. I prefer to see our (female) behaviour as enquiring and making deeper connections through our concerns for others rather than 'nosy'. I understand men are more reserved needing basic details without the emotional attachments. But, then, I also see how men who get together in groups and discuss things like football etc actually do get quite emotional and bond or form those attachments albeit differently in style from women. Which brings me to another point - I guess men see gossip as 'frivolous talk' and yet we chicks see sport talk in the same way. Or how about car talk - boasting about your ride and the modifications made to it. So maybe that is boys' version of gossip. Ah, now before you say 'but we aren't talking about other people or invading their privacy' etc etc or we aren't hurting anyone...let me go here: Women are more emotional therefore they talk about people (which is an emotionally interactive topic). Men are more survivalist or identity based (knowing where they stand) and therefore they like to discuss sports (competition that emulates survival situations) and cars (technical details or what's what under the hood and competing with fellow men to establish their status or where they stand). I vaguely remember this from my first year studies at uni lol. I probably did an assignment on it. So as much as we might dislike what the opposite sex talks about, it actually plays a role in meeting our needs through the art of communication.

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Wed May 20, 2009 1:40 pm

I'm not doing so good this week, I'm very glad that Night Star brought up the Emotional woman issue. My father coached be saying on a regular basis that men are logical or rational and women are emotional creatures it is how we are wired.

A lot of my writing skills comes from that foundation to be understood you don't want the person receiving your message to interpret the message the wrong way, say the same thing two different ways but mean the same thing each time, like repeating a sequence of numbers to double check and make sure that you heard the order of the sequence correctly.

I've been working on my motorcycle I"m attempting to put it back together so that it will once again be road worthy. That is what I have been doing and why I'm so late and so exhausted. Work and working on my own project.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Thu May 21, 2009 6:32 am

I was being kind of tongue-and-cheek there, Kat. Stereotyping a bit and having some fun. lol Didn't mean any offence. That is a very generalized perspective that I've seen at times, not the way I view the sexes. But I think women do tend to be more emotional (openly emotional) and curious about things socially, yes.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Thu May 21, 2009 9:21 am

Oh thank goodness lol. See? This communication thingy is fraught with pitfalls. And that is just between the genders...when you add something like between two people from different cultures or countries into the mix...hoooboy it gets challenging! Not that Moonie and I have any problems so long as he s l o w s down for the poor slow drawling aussie on the other end of the line so she can understand and decipher his accent raflmao

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Thu May 28, 2009 3:12 pm

raflmao
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TheGreatWhiteBuffalo
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sat May 30, 2009 10:00 pm

One other reason the guys won't talk is because they feel trapped like one more word and they will be subject to great ridicule, that is unless the guy just knows the word to drive others crazy and feels confident enough to blurt out what ever in order to open up a discussion.

Otherwise he might just choose to remain quiet and watch the world pass by.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sun May 31, 2009 4:09 am

I think that this is a great thread and I thank you Goth for starting it. It is a great oppertunity for both sides to be heard and possibly enlighten the other side to thier way of thinking. Yes I admit that even given the way I was raised I still think in the same general way as many men. Eargo why I belive some aspecks to be genetic in nature.

I am all for details when talking with a woman as long as those details are relivent to the situation, or to the woman herself. My love and I will ligh in bed just talking for hours, sometimes not falling asleep till four or fve in the morning. These times we spend together are very important to me and have proved very enlightening to her wants and needs, and to mine for her.

As for conversations about situations where the relivent people aren't available to comment or defend, she knows not to bother unless it is someone close to us and speculation is left to others.

Neither way of thinking or communicating can be said to be right or wrong, but needed in their own way for the relivent sex involved. This does and will inevitably lead to communication problems, but in many cases keeps things interesting.

I as a guy do not want or need to fully understand woman. It would take all the fun and excitment out of the jurney. happy hour
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sun May 31, 2009 4:22 am

What are you guys talking about? muahahaha
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sun May 31, 2009 9:33 am

More wonderful insight thumup

Yes, there is something to be said for leaving a little mystery. Kind of like we women not needing to know why you guys like to sit in the can for half an hour with a newspaper - let that mystery remain I say peace

I guess depending on the situation, the communication changes. So maybe it isn't the ears that need to stay open between the sexes - perhaps for communication to work efficiently and effectively it is the heart that needs to be open during conversations?

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sun May 31, 2009 4:22 pm

Goth~Ink wrote:

I guess depending on the situation, the communication changes. So maybe it isn't the ears that need to stay open between the sexes - perhaps for communication to work efficiently and effectively it is the heart that needs to be open during conversations?

I couldn't agree more Goth thumup

When my wife closed her mind and heart to certain realities of our existance together, it inevitable spelled the end to communication between us and an end to our lives together.

Surprise! (for those of you who have read past post of my wife and I)

So who do I reffer to when I said "my love" (This is topic relivent) 27 years ago I was engaged to my one true love. Love at first sight is not fiction. Her and I could talk for hours and never be at a lose for words or subjects to disgus. Communication between us was even beyond the spoken word. I was 20 and she was 18 though and I must admit that I was immuture and we wanted different things at the time. She the house with the white picket fence, and me the pyramids of Egypt.

We knew without having to even speak the words that the time wasn't right for us, and when we broke up there was no fight, no anger, just mutual understanding.

Off and on over the next few years we would drift back into each others lives (well I did most of the drifting blush ) and no matter the situation, it was like we had never been apart. We would instantly be right back into that familiar flow of communication. Our hearts hadn't changed.

We eventualy lost touch, and I eventualy settled down. 24 years later from the time we last spoke - we were reunited by what can only be described as mystical cercomstances. Which I plan to start a thread on soon.

From the moment we realized who we were talking to on the phone we instantly flowed right back into the natural way we communicated with each other. I moved from Mass to Florida and we are finaly together for good. In our ways we both got what we were looking for from our lives and now it is our time.

The point is that we were always in each others hearts and we never lost the ability to comunicate on an honest and open level, and that was what alowed us to pick up from where we left off so many years later.

Guys, if you love a woman, open your hearts and minds. Listen to what is being said and learn to hear that which is not. Show her that you care enough to try even if you fall short, and hopefully she will try to do the same. The rewards are great - the risk is minimal. cool
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sun May 31, 2009 5:28 pm

That is a truly beautiful story and I am so happy for the two of you. I wish you both all the success and happiness in the world, Humaren. And thanks for chancing to tell your story here. It offers hope to those of us whose hearts have been bruised and confidence diminished, the result of miscommunication and misunderstanding with the ones we love.

I have my own story of a love that has been drifting in and out of my life for the past three years now. I had big signs from the universe he was coming the first time and I felt there was a deeper connection than a passing relationship there. But, sadly, one of us wasn't ready. And that one is still not ready despite trying to re-establish contact with me this week. But now I see it is more than communication that is holding us back - it is unresolved personal baggage on his part. If there's a happy tale to tell about all this it is the fact that I gained a better relationship with myself out of it. And I have learned so much about communication and how different people use it.

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:17 pm

I just had another bad experience with communication and things being said. I was outside working on my motorcycle yesterday and this woman who was house sharing with me comes out and starts to ask some questions, I had just dropped a washer in the engine area and it was not visible, I still need to find that special washer so there I am looking for the washer and tinkering around with other things at the same time and this question is asked I can't even remember what the question was. I just remember that I didn't want to answer the question and so I gave a synical and sarcastic response. One of those I don't know, you should know me by now to know what I think. The topic was on morality and personal values. If a person doesn't have personal values can they be moral? Obviously the conversation could go on for a long time and would be quite distracting from locating the lost washer and what ever else I was working upon. So the woman turns away saying that people who have no principles according to me have no morality. I thought to myself for a minute this was a baited conversation to twist what I really believed into something that was totally anti- to my point of view.

I call it really bad police work, but I really don't want to talk to this person and after that episode I really can't wait until she moves out in the next week or so... Getting me frustrated or angry was clearly her purpose and so be it if that is the way that she has to behave.

How many experiences of this sort does it take for a person to learn to just be quiet and tell people to go away and leave me alone?

I have no obligation from past issues to give this woman the time of day and especially over such a philosophical topic as to the values that frame a person and their beliefs.

She wanted to provoke an emotional response to irritate my existence, she did!

Grrrrr!
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:14 am

Maybe she just had to get her opinion in before she leaves nah nah lol Sorry Gary, just joking mate.

That was a fine example of communication breaking down though - look at how you responded to give her the message to go away and leave you alone. And look at the residual feelings it left you with...I wonder how much harder it was to find that washer after being emotionally stirred up? (Hope you did find it by the way big grin ). Communication between the sexes - or anybody - is not meant to cause damage. Ideally, all parties should share and understand information without undue negative impact (unless of course the communication imparts bad news).

Your exchange with your neighbour reminds me of two aspects of communication that often get overlooked and contribute to the gender problems - one being neglecting or ignoring needs, and the other being making assumptions. Your need in this case was to focus on the job at hand uninterrupted. This woman was a distraction. You lost a washer. The result? Unpleasant exchange and anger.

Assumptions are an area I recently had a discussion on. It is amazing how many people claim not to be psychic and yet they make all sorts of assumptions about other people with no tangible proof. They must be psychic to have such insight! Or they are making erroneous judgments based on their own feelings and not the reality of the situation. I'll use your experience for example Gary - although this in no way means I know the reality of the situation or am judging you or the woman in question. So Gary expressed a past history and no love lost with his neighbour and assumed she came over to basically stir him up...what if, in reality, the woman had just had a run in with someone else who questioned her values and came to Gary looking for support for her views? Gary however saw it as a personal issue, whereas the woman was seeking to restore her own feelings through finding support....can you see how assumptions may lead to misunderstandings? It's what is not said that drove this exchange into negativity. The woman could have said "I was just talking to Janice up the street and ...." and the man (Gary) could have said "I am kind of busy right now and need to concentrate on what I am doing, can you come back later?".

Gary - I wasn't there so I don't know in reality what happened - please don't take this as me commenting on you personally. I was just using the conversation you had to explore these two pitfalls in communication. peace Thanks for sharing.

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:35 am

Okay first off to share more with a little more clarity.

I stopped by the local produce vendor and picked up some veggie plants, tomatoes and peppers and I had an onion one of those big ones that was producing five sprouts, so I planted my plants and a few veggie string bean bushes and carrots are all planted soon as I got home tonight. I then took another look for that washer and found it and then I listened to some of the daily news...

Current Events, we need to work on that as a project... I need to add it to my blog... there is a plethora of stuff going on right now...

So back to the conversation at hand, first off the woman moved into my house when the house was not being used, I allowed her to move in as a friend then I had to get out of the madness that my wife was bringing into my life and I moved into our (my) house. So now I have a house mate (a family friend (I have a lot more to add and some not so nice experiences to expose.)) So the woman has a name (Barbara) and she has baited me in the past, this was just another attempt to provoke a confrontation and I won't be party to such behavior, the best recourse is to just ignore. After last night when she twisted my comment saying that my I don't know meant that I think that people who lack principles don't have morals or as she put it she quoted me as saying that such people have 'NO!' morals. She was clearly adding to what I had said taking my comment completely out of context, she was doing this deliberately and I've seen and heard her talk about this as a problem of hers in the past, she does this on purpose and she knows she is doing it and she can control herself if she wants to but she enjoys being aggressive or abusive. I'll be very glad when she is out of my hair and my house. So today I came home and she said 'hello' I didn't respond, why should I because everytime I do I get this tangent of information that has nothing to do with helping others, it is all about putting me off balance and pushing me to be her victim and I've already been her victim, I can't wait until she is gone... I'll be glad to explain more when she is gone, as for now it is best to wait a few days and if she doesn't leave in a few days I can still then explain, there is no harm in waiting a few days to expose some of the abuse that I've had to endure.

Sometimes silence can keep the peace... Sometimes exposing abuse can create peace, sometimes we have to work through and wait out until the proper moment arrives. For everything there is a season, and to this we all know there is a season to sow and a season to watch things grow and then comes the time for the harvest. We will know if the product of our labors bears food nourishing for the body and the soul.

I do very much appreciate your comments and thoughts and I clearly see what you are driving at, but as now with added information maybe things aren't on that path and hopefully my method will produce a good result in the end, a peaceful transition quiet with very little stress. I won't allow her to have more power and control in an already bad situation, she gave me a document in August (I believe it was) that she was going to leave last October and here it is June and she is finally getting around to leaving.

Phew, there is a lot going on...
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:04 pm

Goth~Ink wrote:
That is a truly beautiful story and I am so happy for the two of you. I wish you both all the success and happiness in the world, Humaren.

My Love and I thank you Goth. big hug

I am glad that something positive has come of this for you. As for your continuing situation, I hope it too has an equally happy ending as ours. happy hour
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:17 pm

I'm really glad you came to post that quote and reply your timing was perfect. I had to go back and read again what you have written the story is beautiful.

I'm glad that you could find your soul mate, your love...
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:46 am

Oh Gary, I didn't mean for you to be put on the spot and have to explain yourself...I wasn't trying to analyse the exchange. I just took the face value of it as a fictitious example to illustrate something I have observed in general. Please don't feel singled out or like you have to disclose your personal details. That was not my intention at all. for you

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