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 Boys, why don't you talk?

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Goth~Ink
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PostSubject: Boys, why don't you talk?   Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:45 pm

Communication breaks down and misunderstanding causes relationships to go down the gurgler. We chicks love to talk - we live to talk - we try to talk with you guys and we get....well...silence.

Fellas, help me out - why do you men not talk??? Why do guys go off into their caves (sheds, dens, workshops, wherever there is no woman trying to yap to you) and not talk things out?

You guys gather in groups and with other guys you could give us women a run for our money in the talking stakes! Especially if a few beers or sport or cars are involved. But try to talk one on one with a woman and suddenly you clam up. You especially don't do emotions or bonding heart to heart. In fact most guys I know change the subject and start talking car parts or cricket scores instead of genuinely relating. What's with that???

I am trying to understand the male psyche but I got nothing. see stars How come it is okay to be straight shooters with your mates, but us women get either the silent treatment or likened to what's under the bonnet of your ride?

Please explain... huh

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TheGreatWhiteBuffalo
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:14 am

We are doing what we are trained to do.

I have oodles of letters, correspondences that clearly indicate that I have been the target of abuse, yet I haven't chosen to publish those letters as I figure this evidence should be used for profit.

So how does talking and opening up work out when there is no listening to what we are saying work, I remember having a difficult discussion with the woman that I married and she was so adamant in her position that I needed to go take a break from her diatribe as she was trying to convince me that what I knew was not what I observed and had nothing to do with the reality that she required which would be a life as a slave to a pill. I tried to explain that I was familiar with the medication that she was going to be prescribed with and she acted like I had two heads and new nothing about chemicals and biology. I stepped away and retreated to my garage to regain my composure and find a better way to explain what I already knew, and why...

So what did I learn?

She had the right to slam cabinet doors and take a mighty stand in my face all prepared for my disagreement and yet she never listened to my reasons, she had created an argument before listening to the facts. As a result more doors were slamed and keys were bent.

The result?

Today our breakdown of communication has resulted in my not having the ability to visit with my children. Our marriage was destroyed. I am the bad guy. The doctor that prescribed the medication refuses to see her his patient and requested that she get anther doctor because she demanded stronger and stronger doses of the medication. She was not willing to do the work that I recommended to keep her off of the medications in the first place. But as a liar she gets rewarded and her guide??? Yeah, that would be her adopted mother they made this agreement between her and my step mother on our wedding day??? Huhhh? I thought that being married they would be considered part of the family unless there was bad blood and someone had to take advantage of another person or person's... ???

For some people they are members of the last generation there will be no after life.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:38 am

Iusually do not talk much, but I can talk non stop - yes nonstop) when I am with the person I love to be (for the sheerjoyof mutual presence) with OR with the people who vibe well with my thoughts and ideas (to share, learn and grow). I do not let myself in for silly talks or gossips, do not have time nor energy for those. no offence

But I do believe in communication, communicating the honest way. mwamwa
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:20 am

Hi Moonie,

Hey that word Gossip, how do you define that word as many words tend to be interpreted differently I'm curious to see if we are of the same understanding.

I have found a bunch of words with a multiplicity of meanings and it causes so many problems. I say this and they hear that and a war is created when it all becomes political. Then there is the down right twisting of words to be used other than how they were connected or as other words are deliberately inserted to change the original meaning into something malicious.

A real mark of a wise person is to get at the root of an issue by paying close attention to detail.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:06 am

Gossip to me means talking about mundane things which do not promote or provide anything towards my knowledge or interest or awareness. More so like the celebrity talks,about other peoples lifes etc etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:58 pm

I feel gossip is spreading false information about others.

Talking about Celebrities really isn't gossip if you are telling the truth according to my definition, while it might not be productive for you or I at least on the surface it might do us well to pay attention to what those people are doing and how they are doing it..

I hope I get you to frame your definition more concisely as you think about this a little more I hope... The reason will soon become very clear why it is important to know the truth and that is a sharing of information.

Thank you for sharing and I too will reflect more on what you wrote, I'm a bit tired after a 12 hour day, so I'm off for some much needed rest...
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:52 am

Me, I have no problem talking about emotions, but only with friends I trust enough for that - and trust me, there's very few of them, but they are there. But to not be able to talk about that kind of stuff with your spouse, well, that's plain stupid in my book. If you can't trust her with your emotions, then who can you trust?

I have no patience for people I can't trust, but I also have zero tolerance or patience at all for people who CAN'T trust; people who shut their emotions away from their loved ones are people I, quite frankly, despise. They remind me too much of my old man, and to talk to people like that is like talking to a robot.


As for talking things out after a fight...well, I guess we guys are just more hotheaded than women. We probably need some time to cool our heads before we can have a creative and rewarding talk that'll solve the problem. And often, we also need time alone to think about it before we're ready to talk about it with others. Usually when we get to think things over we come up with a rational, and the best, solution, in my opinion.

Or we just let things cool down and get over it without any further pain or arguments needed. Time heals all wounds, and all that.

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:41 am

Thanks to all of you for responding. I can see how personal situations obviously affect the way in which communication breaksdown or becomes ineffective. Gary I relate to what you expressed about your situation. As you know I have a situation that is similar and yet opposite to yours in my life. In this case, the man does not hear. He talks at people (even his own kids) but does not relate to them or with them. I wonder then, if this is the emotional compartment of talking that as Virus suggested with his father, gets locked away... in this sense it is hard to really get to know a person or understand what motivates them. The first casualty in my opinion would be trust. Without trust, what is there to base a relationship on?

Ah, gossip...now this is an interesting area. I think what I picked up from Moonie and you Gary is that triviality is a waste of time. Honestly, how does what Brad and Angelina and their however many adopted kids are doing affect us personally? It doesn't! It is wasted breath talking about it. Or is it? Perhaps celebrity gossip is a happy interlude from our own lives and problems. Nobody really cares in a deeply personal way what these celebs go through, but it makes for a nonsensical distraction from our problems doesn't it? Gossip about people we know is another matter. So basically, men prefer to know what's what in plain simple language, but also they don't want diversions? Is that kind of how it works? Kind of like efficiency in communication. Get the job done without taking all the coffee breaks? blu wink lol

Virus, from your post I think you are talking about reciprocity - an equal sharing. I like this. But I wonder how you do that when everybody is at different stages of healing or dealing with their stuff? For example, I moved on from the relationship with the father of my kids along time ago and tried to remain on amicable terms with him for the kids' sake and to make visitation as calm as possible. I talk politely and in a friendly manner to him. And he gives me venom or silence in return. I feel like he has not dealt with his own stuff surrounding our relationships, and I would really appreciate he keep it separate and away from in front of the kids, but he doesn't. I have tried to express this to him - even in mediation recently - but have made no headway. His solution is that I simply deliver the kids to him and not speak at all. I find this a ludicrous request as it sets a bad example for our kids and how on earth am I to arrange a time to pick the kids back up or tell him what has been happening in their lives or if they need medication etc?

Gary you mentioned that when your wife goes into a diatribe and you feel unheard, you retreat to your garage to collect your thoughts...that is really insightful. Thanks. I often wondered why men do that - seem to pull away - right awwwaaayyyy and even go into silent mode. Reflecting and recollecting their thoughts.that makes sense. thumup I have been stuck in that zone before where I feel like I am saying something and the guy just wasn't getting it. I wonder how you break down that barrier. I have tried putting it in other words or using analogies to illustrate. I have used the simplest words possible, but still it is like a brick wall with no way over it. And yet I have heard what the other person has said but he keeps repeating it as if I haven't. I wonder if it is a defence mechanism for not really understanding emotionally what the message is conveyed by my words. The minute any emotions flavour a conversation, I have noticed men back away. Any ideas there? Is it just some men who don't do emotions? And if so why?

You guys are really helping me see things from a different perspective. Thanks for your patience and input. Please don't take this thread as manbashing - it isn't. It is a woman trying to understand the dynamics of communication between the sexes in the hope of improving her future relationships.

peace

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:19 pm

I thought I heard a woman's voice coming from in here. LOL Ooooh a bar. Bartender! cheers

Ihave to chuckle at the men/women relationship thing. I used to be a tiger. ROAR! If I was upset, I would want to clear things up and I wanted it cleared up immediately!!!!! LOL I think men fear agressive women. They don't know how to handle it or something. They are like whoa! Shocked Then I learned to be calm and think before I spoke and listen carefully and all that. Still, it took years to get through hubbies armour. First of all he isn't exactly a man of many words to begin with and secondly, he simply was unsure of how to communicate his thoughts and feelings clearly. He was afraid to screw things up even more. LOL

As for you and your x Goth, you have said and done all you could. Continue to treat him as you have amicably, and maybe one day he will realize that it takes more energy to be cold and unkind than it does to be a nice guy. You would think he would do it for the kids at least.

Ok, I'll go sip my drink in the corner over there. Carry on.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:29 pm

I'm a bit tired, after 12+ yesterday and 11 today... If this week continues, I certainly won't be eligible for any partial compensation. Things are heating up nicely...

I'll try and make more sense tomorrow...

I have something to add to the fact that some people enjoy making the world cold for other people and it just isn't right...

I should have followed my instincts better in the beginning there is something to be said for being older and wiser.

More tomorrow...
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:54 pm

Oh Gary - go and rest. You must be exhausted working those long hours. It is lovely to have you visit but please take care to get enough rest.

I have found that getting older has it's perks when it comes to wisdom and communication. I wouldn't trade what I know now for youth again. I decided just this week that i am gonna have the wonderful adulthood that I missed out on up till this point starting NOW. I have even decided to get something symbolic - a small ring or charm to remind me to always honor and love myself and not settle for anything less than I deserve. It will be symbolic of the commitment I make to myself to make choices based on self love and wholeness.

This communication thing is a big issue that I really want to understand. Lorri, it's good to hear another woman's experiences and insight. Gary, my rose-coloured new age glasses are off now and yes I agree, there are people here who feed off causing others pain and misery. Perhaps it is fear, but more likely it is people with unhealthy habits borne out of conditioning and not dealing with their own issues. Even my children see the unhealthy messages and thoughts expressed by their father and my oldest boy has even said 'that is not the man I want to turn into'. I am not going to go into another rant about my ex - he's just one of the men in my life who has been part of this communication impasse. I want to be respectful towards all men and not judge them on the few who have caused damage in my life. I am willing to learn meditate I wish to understand not carry bitterness. Most of all, I want to be able to have healthy communications with guys that I meet in the future.. to know that their silence might not be anger but reflection.

Anyway...that's enough from me...I do enough talking for everyone (have I reached 1000 posts yet?? lol). laughtears

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:50 pm

Naw, your at 347 you have a ways to go...

I just had an interesting conversation with a man who is a teacher, I talked and tried to get his ear, it is infuriating that when you try to communicate they will not listen and how do I know that the guy was not listening? He/We never made the connection as he claimed not to understand computers and how I could use the internet to solve my problems/issues... He never allowed me to give him the key to my identity... TheGreatWhiteBuffalo no spaces because if you google TGWB with spaces you get all that information about that song done by Ted Nuggent... Nothing about me... Or very little, but remove the spaces and there I am 9 out of 10 links is me... Thanks Google :)

I burned myself out tonight, other than to say or write what I just did...

I'm glad the glasses are off and yes there are many people conditioned in the wrong way...

I'm very cautious of them...

Your son is wise beyond his years, good for him...

In time I'll explain more...
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:41 pm

What is this time you speak of? Is it the currency of souls on this planet? blu wink

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sat May 02, 2009 10:03 am

Time, it is that thing between the hours of sleep that we do or don't and it keeps moving into the future...

So my soul currency is not spent, it is learning the rhythm of the dance to move and flow like the flowers swaying in a breeze gently buffeted from side to side...

Time is always on our side, when time has no meaning you are on the right side of time with nothing left to fear and nothing can hide we are at peace what ever may come our way we ride...

Eternal Blliss...
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sat May 02, 2009 8:13 pm

Now that is language I understand lol for you

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sun May 03, 2009 4:12 am

Sooooooooooo..................... Wheres the Scotch and the Dart Board? I'll take ya all on. I guarantee some laughs along the way too. It pays to blow off some steam when emotions are high or even low. But I want that Scotch first! drool
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sun May 03, 2009 8:00 am

I think the scotch is waiting in GreatWhiteBuffalo's other thread about opening time lol. Venting in here is cool. It is a predominantly male section but I thought I'd try to pick some male brains to find out the lowdown on this communication issue. It has been most helpful. Thanks guys sweetheart

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sun May 03, 2009 3:59 pm

One scotch coming up!
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Sun May 03, 2009 11:33 pm

Goth~Ink wrote:
I think the scotch is waiting in GreatWhiteBuffalo's other thread about opening time lol. Venting in here is cool. It is a predominantly male section but I thought I'd try to pick some male brains to find out the lowdown on this communication issue. It has been most helpful. Thanks guys sweetheart

Yes it does! How embarrassing! Walked into the wrong place. Looking for the bar but walked into the library. Maybe another scotch is not a very good idea.... then again! Set me up Night Star!!
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Mon May 04, 2009 1:56 am

While writing that story of the day of fouled communications where my wife was slamming doors and bending keys, two days later I made friends with a very special person and she told me of her troubles with Diabetes and then Thyroid problems.

From April 26 to April 28 this new friend request came to me from an old friend, we also go back to elementary school and I'm curious if she remembers my playing this song I want to record so badly for the class back in 5th grade??? I haven't heard from her lately this social networking site was new to her and maybe a bit overwhelming and then here I am talking about days of old... But the nice thing was we were Homeroom King and Queen and there is a story in that and maybe why she has not written back. She was one of the few girls that would dance with me, at the dances... I was shy and too nervous to ask a girl to dance for the most part. But just as friends this lovely young lady would dance with me, there were no expectations not that I knew of...

Well this lady is sharing about Synthroid the medication used to help people with Thyroid problems and that is the drug that my wife was getting prescribed and I knew all about Synthroid because my father told me all about his Thyroid being removed and how he had an OBE when he died on the Operating table and was one of the first people to receive open heart massage. Synthroid is a known chemical to me because of dad.

I knew that once my wife started on Synthroid there was no ever getting off of it and I wanted to see if a change in lifestyle diet and exercise would be more benneficial. It was my belief that a mother and homemaker should eat and exercise better than what she was and I even went as far as to set up a meeting with the then doctor who I believe later realized the situation that I had been put into. My wife learned about Synthroid through the Church and how it helped other women and she thought she was like them other women. The doctor was also fooled by my wife at first until she kept coming back to have the dosage increased on a regular basis. Finally my wife was mixing the two known weight loss drugs together and that is when the doctor told my wife to find a new doctor. He wouldn't be a part of what she was doing.

My friend on the other hand has a need due to how her body attacked her thyroid, it is the same thing the doctor told my wife that her thyroid was being attacked, my friend had the complications of diabetes my wife had no other existing known medical ailments or conditions at that time.

Her only problem was too much pasta and sitting around doing nothing.

We need a healthy balance, veg's, meats etc. and exercise.

Now how does this fit into a thread about the lack of communication especially on the man's part. I think my point is that a healthy man is involved in communicating but it is a risk of losing the relationship when the woman has already made up her mind and is not going to listen to what the man is advising or suggesting. Troubles really develop when the woman sets out to acquire more than they are entitled to as in trying to live outside of her means. We are born into this world as people in different classes of society based on the wealth of the family and we have to know the proper ways to move up into higher class levels. Many people attempt to jump illegally and this causes problems my ex-wife wanted me to buy things on credit and I refused everything that I bought was on pay as I go... I know what I can afford and I'm glad I didn't go any further into debt as this financial crisis has taken me down the economic ladder and so I am just barely getting by hopefully things will get better in the future.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Mon May 04, 2009 7:58 am

Aha! What an excellent point Gary. Differences in values or value systems contribute to communication problems. I had the same thing only in a different context with an ex of mine. He worshipped the almighty dollar and I put people and feelings first. We never saw eye to eye. He didn't value my feelings and I got angry at him putting status and wealth above spending quality time with his family. We had massive communication problems.

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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Mon May 04, 2009 8:43 pm

I think there has to be a balance, and communication is the key to working together.

Indeed...
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Tue May 05, 2009 10:23 am

You were wise to live within your means Gary.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Tue May 05, 2009 9:32 pm

I am lucky to be able to keep a roof over my head as I am in a very fragile state right now... I wish I could move forward with my Federal Court Case and get that mess settled.

Wishing doesn't make things happen though.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys, why don't you talk?   Thu May 14, 2009 3:12 am

Communication between the sexes....now there is a problem as old as humanity.

A big part of the problem is that many men have as much trouble understanding women as woman have understanding men.

Men seem to be wired differently from women - both on a genetic level as well as a social level, and perhaps especially on the social level. A main example would be emotionally. Men are wired and taught differently where emotion is concerned. From a young age we are taught not to show many emotions as they are signs of weakness. This is programed so deeply that when faced with the free emotions of a woman the man is simply dumfounded - he can’t handle it.

Environment can also play a big role in this. A man raised in a predominantly male environment will be less open to the thoughts and feelings of a woman, than say a man who has been raised in a predominantly female environment.

Things that women perceive as important often confound the more simply oriented mind of a man. Most men like things that are simple, straight to the point and easily delt with.

Example: Two couples get together - the men are in one room - the women in another.

The men discus their friend bill;

Man 1: Seen Bill?

Man 2: Not since he and his wife split.

Man 1: He and his wife split?

Man2: Yep.

Man 1: Get that header fixed on your car yet?

Man 2: Nope.

The woman discus their friend Jan;

Woman 1: Have you seen Jan lately we were supposed to get together and hit the mall on Saturday.

Woman 2: Not since her and Bill split up last week.

Woman 1: Her and Bill split up last week? What happened?

Woman 2: I’m not sure, but Lori says that Tammy told her that she saw Bill at a bar with another woman about a week ago. Jan found out and threw his butt out.
Woman 1: well serves him right! We have to call Jan - she’ll be needing us about now!

Woman 2: You want to know what I think........ect...ect...etc.

With the men in this situation the knowledge that Bill and his wife split was all that was required to satisfy the question of Bills absence. Any further information regarding the details could be filled in by Bill if he chose. Not likely though. Speculation was not required or wanted and they moved on to the more immediate problem of the header.

The woman in this situation needed more information though, even if that information was from a third party. Why a woman finds the details to be important is unclear to a man as it does not directly impact the life of the two beyond the fact that their friend has a problem. They will then interject themselves into the situation even though Jan has not called them about it.

For the men, if the friend wants help he’ll ask for it.

Then there is the simpler fact that some people are just born jerks and can’t function outside of their own self absorbed view of the world.
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